Part 5 of an interview we did with Noonan Sensei some time ago. Noonan Sensei is currently the most senior ranked teacher of Chito-Ryu Karate-Do in Australia. In this episode we put Noonan Sensei in the hot seat, and ask him a number of questions from some other Chito-Ryu instructors from around Australia.
—- Transcript —-
015 – Michael Noonan Sensei interview – part 5
Sandra: Welcome back everybody. Today we are in our final part of the five-part interview with Noonan Sensei.
Martin: And of course, if you’ve missed any of the first four parts, be sure to go back and have a listen to them.
Sandra: Okay, so in this episode, Martin, we have Noonan Sensei in the hot seat.
Martin: Yeah, so we’re going to be asking him lots of questions from, that have been given to us from some other Chito-Ryu instructors from around Australia.
Sandra: All right, let’s get straight into it.
Martin: We’ve noticed everybody faces challenges in life, some big and some small, but not everyone has a way to navigate these problems.
Sandra: It’s not always easy, but we’ve found that we always keep coming back to what we’ve learned from our years in the dojo.
Martin: And that’s what this podcast is all about.
Sandra: Helping us all find the solutions to life’s problems, or even better yet, to remove the problems before they arise.
Martin: This is Martin and Sandra Phillips, and welcome to the Karate4Life Podcast.
All right, so we’ve got some hot seat questions for you from some of the different instructors around this one. First one from Adam Higgins Sensei on the Gold Coast.
So, in your younger years, you went through some hard physical training, conditioning, and do you believe this is necessary for young karate-ka who wish to pursue?
Noonan Sensei: Oh, that’s a very good question. Do I think that physical, hard physical training is necessary? Yes, I do. I say that because, for me, it was because I didn’t have any hard physical training.
I didn’t come into karate being athletic. I didn’t come in as a gymnast or a great swimmer, or anything like that. So for me, definitely, it was necessary.
Now, I can’t speak for everybody. So there’s probably certain people that might need a bit less of it, but I would say because the way we do technique is very unique, and the muscles we use also therefore must be tuned in a certain way, and certain ones must be strengthened. And so I would say that the exercises that we do are specific for the development of karate.
I’ll just make that clear. I don’t believe that if you’re a buff gym guy that that’s enough physical exercise for karate. I’m not having a go at buff gym guys, but karate is so specific, and the things you need to develop and strengthen are so unusual in many ways, as you know.
So yes, you do, but depending on what you’ve done before might be some variation in what you need to do, and how much.
Martin: All right, next question from Mark Snow Sensei, who’s just over in the corner, actually. Should have got him over here for this one. Can you explain shuhari in relation to your journey?
Maybe just a brief explanation of what shuhari is first, I guess.
Noonan Sensei: Okay, yeah. Shu is the basic part, to develop, to copy, you know, like a foundation. And the Ha part is to make it your own, and Ri part is to break away from that. Now, I’m sure there’s a lot of people out there that give a broader, you can YouTube that and get a much better explanation, a much deeper one, but for the purpose of this conversation, that’s pretty much it.
How’s it applied in my journey? Yeah, you know, I think it applies in everybody’s journey. It’s something that, if you really practice correctly, you can’t escape from.
If you don’t follow this process, and I won’t say it’s, well, you know, I’m not sure, really. Maybe it’s a long, drawn-out process where you’ve done this, and done that, and then you break. But in my mind, the longer I do it, I think it’s a series of the same thing happening over and over again.
You’re learning something, you’re breaking, you’re learning, you’re consolidating, you make it in your own, and then you’re breaking away. And you do it again, and again, and again, and again, with different techniques, with different mindsets, developing different parts of your body. And I think Soke always, in a video that Soke and I did together, he always talks about that’s coming back to the beginning.
And I almost think that’s what that’s about, that you’re starting, you’re making it your own, and you’re breaking, and then you come back, and you repeat the process. So, you know, that’s my opinion, and that’s how it affected my karate life.
Martin: That’s great, that’s great. All right, next question. This one’s actually from me.
I’ve written this one down, so it’s a little bit, make sure I get it. So, obviously, Chito-Ryu was introduced to Australia, the official record say was 1972. It was actually a little bit before that, late 60s, I believe.
Noonan Sensei: Yes, I believe it was 67, but I don’t know exactly.
Martin: Obviously, this was before any of us started our current generation. So, I guess, based on your interactions with the teachers that you had, and people in the early days, what do you remember about what Chito-Ryu was like in those early years?
I guess we covered a little bit of this earlier. Yeah, yeah.
Noonan Sensei: Look, I’m only repeating what someone told me, so I wasn’t there to see it. I was told that we, that Chito-Ryu had very long stances, and being new to anywhere, and not having a great deal of depth and contact with overseas, it would have been very muscular, because we know that when we develop something, we’re applying all the muscles to start with, until we learn better, and then start to reduce, or maybe target the muscles that we should be using, and stop using the ones we shouldn’t be using.
That’s right, yeah. However, so, but when something’s introduced somewhere, it’s kind of new, and the people teaching it had not themselves spent years either in Japan, or with Soke, or back and forth, and so, if you can imagine a form of Chitok-Ryu that was quite hard, and I don’t want to misquote my friend Paul Hind Sensei, but, you know, I can’t remember what the term he used, but, you know, it’s kind of wham, bam, boof, and that’s a bit what it was like, you know. It was pretty, it was more a Bash em up type of tough, hard, blood on the floor kind of training, yes.
Martin: So perhaps a little bit different to these days?
Noonan Sensei: Well, I mean, the expertise that we have now, and the technical expertise we have now, is really second to none in the world, and I don’t say that egotistically, and I don’t say it lightly. I really believe that with the people we’ve got here, and of course, that’s going to reflect in our dojos, and reflect in our students and their abilities. And I think now, maybe philosophically, we’ve come another step as well, where it goes hard, tough, fight.
Now, maybe philosophically, we’ve come a couple of steps ahead, and we’re thinking, you know, how does karate impact other areas of your life? What are the benefits of karate? Do you just do karate, like I did, to learn to fight to start with, and then does that, as you, the more you practice, it’ll change your view of what you’re practicing, and ultimately mould your character.
So I would think now that there is more philosophical input now today, than there has been previously, and having your wife, Sandra Phillips Sensei, here this week, and today we were fortunate enough to have her take a women’s seminar, and although I wasn’t officially at the seminar, what I caught little bits and pieces of it was a lot of mental focus, and from the week we’ve had it, it’s the same thing, there’s a lot of mental focus, that was lacking, that was not there, definitely in the early days.
So, but technically and philosophically, we were younger, younger, that’s all. As you grow, you get, you know, you get better, and you get older, you get better.
Martin: Hopefully, hopefully.
Noonan Sensei: Well, we do, we have, we have, we’ve got older, the style’s got older here, and I was told 67 from memory, and I could be proven wrong.
Martin: Just a couple more questions, one from Adam McDonald Sensei, also from the Blue Mountains. Is there anything that you would have changed in your journey, and what would you have done differently?
Noonan Sensei: Oh, that’s a good one. Um, well, I’m kind of happy where I am at the moment, so if I had to change something, maybe I wouldn’t be where I am. On the other hand, maybe I would have been further along the track, so it’s like rolling the dice, would I change anything?
From one, one perspective, one thing I would change is, I would be very careful about how much impact work I did on heavy bags, makiwara and those things, and people’s bodies. Especially as you get older. Well, yes, when you’re younger, it doesn’t, you know, you don’t think it’s going to happen to you, but you trust me, young people out there, you can see me, it will happen to you.
If you don’t listen to your teachers, it’ll happen to you. You’re going to be in a world of pain when you get older, if you do the wrong things to your body, and that goes back to the discussion we had on fake teachers, that if you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re endangering people. That’s another very good point, but, so, what I’d do differently, well, I would probably not do as much toe-strengthening work, and kicking the makiwara with the tip of my toe, because I do suffer a little bit in that area at the moment, that’s one thing.
Pretty much apart from that, I’d just be a little bit more careful with the way I did any type of conditioning exercises, and the length. Now, that was not anybody’s fault apart from my own, because Soke told me not to do that much, but being young and silly, I did more, and I had been influenced by another couple of guys, in Chito-Ryu, that were heavily into that kind of thing, but I should have just listened to Soke. If I hadn’t listened to Soke, I don’t think I’d have the minor problems that I have today, but I’d rather not have them, put it that way.
Martin: All right, and one final question from Greg Field Sensei from Newcastle, and this one might take a little bit, what are the key skills and concepts that students should practice at various Dan grades? Not to get too deep on the final question.
Noonan Sensei: And these are all impromptu questions, by the way, so this is all off the top of my head, I haven’t prepared anything, I haven’t shown you any questions, I’m not going to give you the questions, what are you going to practice? Oh boy, I mean, how far do you want to go? Let’s just be very, a little bit surface level in this, if you’re going for a Shodan, your technique’s got to be really good in all the basics, and you’ve got to show that you have power, and that you have speed, and that you, when you step into a particular stance, it is that stance, it’s not a, almost that stance, you’ve got to have your, you know, Ichi gan, Ni soku, San tan, all right.
We’re happy, I think people, I think as teachers, we’re pretty happy if we get a good example of strong basics, we’re not looking for the best fighters, or the, you know, champions of this or that, if we get someone with really strong basics, we can work on that.
As you get to Nidan, I would expect that your technique becomes a lot more whippy, so you’re learning to whip your body more, and faster, and as when you’re in Shodan, when you get to Shodan, I think your training, if you follow Soke’s, the path that Soke kind of puts you on, as you get to Shodan, and the training, you do a lot of speed training, so you’re trying to do your whippy.
I mean, I don’t really want to go into it too much more than that, I think the higher you get, apart from saying that, the higher you get, the more relaxed your karate should be, the more tanden use you should have, so, yeah…
If I may, I’m sorry Greg, but I might just rephrase your question, and not ask for the dan grades, because that gets a little bit, I mean, that’s all written down for you, what you need, but more, as you go up, and we won’t put them in the exact exact grades, you know, third, fourth, fifth, blah, blah, blah, but as you go up, what are the things you should be looking for?
A more relaxed karate, a more use of your tanden, a finer understanding of the basic principles, like Ichi gan, Ni Soku, San Tan, what else, and when we’re going higher and higher, the further you go, the more reliant on those things you should be, and less reliant on the form, but I don’t want anyone to take that the wrong way, and start to do silly things. But the less reliant on exactly how to stand, or exactly how to punch, or those things, and the more reliant on your tandem, and the principles that underlie karate become the focus.
So it’s not necessarily, it’s not like, it’s not like there’s, you know, 500 techniques in a book, and you’ve got to remember 1 to 500, and know, this one does this, and followed by this, and then you do that, you chuck him on the ground. There’s less of that kind of learning, and more of principles, your power should become very explosive.
As you get older, and as I say this, as you get older, you shouldn’t slow down. In fact, at my age, I’m 55, I feel I’m faster than I’ve ever been, and I don’t know, you’ve seen me, I probably am, right, I feel that I’m faster than I have been, I’m certainly, I know I’m certainly more powerful than I’ve ever been before, now I hope that continues, but time will tell, we’ll just, I’ll just do an interview in 20 years, and we’ll know for sure. But, so that’s, that’s I think what people really need to focus on, karate is more than just getting a bad grade, and it’s long term, and if anyone’s telling you that, you know, your karate peaks at 35, and then, and then you just become a member of the organisation, and help out, and blah, blah, blah, and your technique goes down. I would argue with that, say that’s wrong, very wrong, and even when I, that’s not just from my Soke, but even when I met the Royama sensei of Kyokushin, he was on a different path, much softer, and he came, he came across when I saw him demonstrate, and for me, and on me. I just remember somebody that was the same thing, was very fast, he was 74 at the time, very fast, and powerful, and inspirational, and that’s where I get my inspiration from. I look at those guys, I look at Soke, 72 years old, and I think, this guy just keeps getting better, you know, wow, he’s, he’s 72, and you know, like when’s he going to peak? Is there ever going to be a turning point, I don’t know.
So that, that’s the beauty of, I think, training something that, that has history, and roots, and, and a direction, and a path, you can train things, but many, not, not, not all, and I’m not having a go at any martial arts, but many of them, if they’re not taught correctly, it’s like at some point, you just hit that wall, your body starts to fail, there’s no changes, then you go down, now, can you do the same things you could when you’re 20? No, it’s different, so when you’re 20, you might be better at jumping, and leaping, and flying through the air, and doing flying sidekicks, and whatever. Are you going to be doing them at 60? I doubt it, I’m not saying people can’t, but I doubt it, but you will improve in other ways, that you could never think, dream, that were possible, when you were 20. You will, there will be, your karate will be that much improved, and better, and more powerful, and timing will be better, and, you know, it’s, it’s really worth training towards that, so, that’s, sorry Greg, not going to go into every Dan Rank.
Martin: I think it’s still pretty great, I think that’s good, yeah, all right, well, that’s all I’ve got, so thank you very much, I very much, appreciate your time.
Noonan Sensei: I’ll just say one more thing on those, those fake guys, the other thing I was thinking, after we spoke about that, one of the other things is, these guys form organisations. So three or four of them get together, like you and I might get together, your wife will get together, and we call ourselves some name, like, you know, the International World Global Martial Arts Association Federation, or something like that. Whatever grandiose name we give ourselves. And we form this organisation, and then I say to you, you know, you’re very good, I think you should be a Seventh Dan, and so you get up, and do something, and we, the three or four of us that are around you, say there’s your seventh Dan. And then you say, “well, you’re older than us, and you’re a little bit higher, you need to be a ninth Dan, Mike!” and then you guys get together, and you give me a Ninth Dan, and they perpetuate this, really, it’s like a lie.
It’s not just nepotism, it goes further than that, but they, so they get together, they build themselves up to a certain level, and then if people don’t have a grading authority that they can rely on or something, and they look on the internet, they might find this organisation, and then they’ll come to them, and then they’ll get graded, and then these things kind of grow, and get out of hand.
So don’t be fooled, I guess the moral is, don’t be fooled by names, don’t be fooled by the world, global, international, super duper martial arts, whatever. Don’t be fooled by any of that, go back to people’s history, where did they start, how long they’ve been training, and most importantly, who they train with. Because most of these guys will never give you the names of the people, and when you look them up, if they do give you the names, they’re probably not around, they’re not real ones anyway, or they never trained with those people, so that’s another point, all right, thank you very much, thank you,
Martin: Thanks for listening to today’s episode on the Karate4Life Podcast.
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Sandra: Please send us a message, we’d be more than happy to share our thoughts.
Martin: Thanks again for joining us, and stay tuned for the next episode.